tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post3584829748003227446..comments2024-03-26T10:03:51.827+13:00Comments on Karl du Fresne: The year of pronouncing Maori correctlyKarl du Fresnehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05054853925940134404noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-41644497797172369772014-01-17T08:49:45.108+13:002014-01-17T08:49:45.108+13:00Jigsaw: Please show me where I said Maori and Euro...Jigsaw: Please show me where I said Maori and European cultures were equal. I didn't and wouldn't. I said Maori people were treated as inferior, which is a vastly different thing.Karl du Fresnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05054853925940134404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-8874329234022370792014-01-16T21:34:04.465+13:002014-01-16T21:34:04.465+13:00Jigsaw - our attempts to show respect for te reo a...Jigsaw - our attempts to show respect for te reo and indeed English are about using 'inter-language' - using both English and Maori if and when we need to in order to make an effort to show respect to both. It's not about being right or wrong - it's about being willing to use the language and speak in the best way we can. Mispronunciation is ok if it's not meant and when the effort is being made to pronounce correctly. Too often mispronunciation happens through carelessness and no care.Ruma Rimuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07554623076642449491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-7822385876610965092014-01-16T17:26:33.080+13:002014-01-16T17:26:33.080+13:00Two things Karl. Who says something is correct? Pe...Two things Karl. Who says something is correct? People of Maori decent-are they the only ones to say what is 'correct'? How ARe you going to pronounce Taupo? Language changes.<br />I am happy to treat anyone with respect and do in my daily life. To say that Maori had a equal culture when the first Europeans arrived is simply nutty! I have just been researching the first contacts James Cook had with Maori and there is simply no way you could say that the cultures were in any way equal. Not hard to give examples. YOU may not think that you have been sucked in-and I certainly am well aware of what you have written-but radical Maori will be delighted that you demonstrate their power.<br />Ruma Rimu-what about the daily mangling of the English language which is equally as expressive and beautiful?Jigsawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13906156865367357834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-36790932398479973062014-01-16T09:54:49.943+13:002014-01-16T09:54:49.943+13:00I applaud you Karl - this is about wanting to pron...I applaud you Karl - this is about wanting to pronounce our beautiful native language better and any attempt to do so is great. I agree with your comment re Maori language being inferior an not worthy of being respected - this attitude is insidious and prevalent. I teach children whose pronunciation of te reo is delightful, easy and natural - they lead the way for us for sure.Ruma Rimuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07554623076642449491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-23840816154343697402014-01-16T08:38:30.583+13:002014-01-16T08:38:30.583+13:00Jigsaw: I have spent much of my life carefully avo...Jigsaw: I have spent much of my life carefully avoiding being “sucked in”, by anyone or anything. Your assumption that I am pandering to Maori radicals – or worse, trying to ingratiate myself with them – is balmy. It ignores everything I’ve written about Maori activism over the past 20-odd years.<br /><br />I’m sorry your wife is disappointed, but this demonstrates an odd quirk of human nature. When someone agrees with someone else (for example a columnist or blogger) on a range of issues, they often make the mistake of assuming they’re kindred souls on absolutely everything. Then when it turns out they’re not, the result is a sense of betrayal. This helps explain why people on the same ideological side – whether it’s the left or the right – often fall out so bitterly. Some people quite unreasonably come to expect that everything I write will confirm their own world view, but it would be unnatural if even if my most loyal supporters agreed with me on everything. <br /><br />My old friend Vaughan (who I’m sure disagrees with me on many issues, but doesn’t get uppity about it) is correct here. It’s simply a matter of respecting the Maori language by pronouncing it correctly, just as we expect English to be similarly respected. <br /><br />Over the past few days there have been a number of attacks on me for my views on Maori pronunciation, some of them putting forward bizarrely fanciful explanations as to why I might take that position. There’s a spectacularly unhinged letter in today’s Dom Post from someone in Levin. But underneath all the convoluted arguments, I suspect my critics share one characteristic that they won’t admit: the belief that Maori are an inferior people whose language isn’t entitled to be treated with respect, and that as colonisers the British earned the right to impose their superior culture without exception.<br /> <br />Karl du Fresnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05054853925940134404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-57419276351530534402014-01-15T17:40:58.699+13:002014-01-15T17:40:58.699+13:00
What is wrong with pronouncing another language c...<br />What is wrong with pronouncing another language correctly?<br /><br />I can hardly believe somebody would read something awful into it. <br /><br />Vaughanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13105760893956912855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-49581977661136312342014-01-15T17:20:51.296+13:002014-01-15T17:20:51.296+13:00Poor checking there I'm afraid - I meant in re... Poor checking there I'm afraid - I meant in referring to the 'other agenda' that the Maori radicals have another agenda which ensuring that you pronounce place names as they think they should be pronounced no matter how the people who live there pronounce them. I did not mean to infer that you had an agenda. They do and you are simply being sucked in. Maori radicals often say that Maori place names mean something and indeed most of them do-often referring to plants which often no longer exists in that locality. Tyhink of the names that begin Manga******* which means a creek through a particular group of trees. Mangamaire is an example. <br />I have to say my wife, who admires you writing was most disappointed in you PC decision.Jigsawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13906156865367357834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-36644976707829654792014-01-14T07:45:59.637+13:002014-01-14T07:45:59.637+13:00Jigsaw, I'd be fascinated to hear any theory y...Jigsaw, I'd be fascinated to hear any theory you might have about what this "other agenda" might be. Karl du Fresnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05054853925940134404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-79176204409232753592014-01-13T19:46:48.292+13:002014-01-13T19:46:48.292+13:00I'm afraid as far as Maori pronunciation is co... I'm afraid as far as Maori pronunciation is concerned you do sound very PC Karl. Fact is you have just proved the power of the Maori first lobby. The other thing of course is just whose pronunciation you will follow-RNZ have at least 6 different ways of saying Taupo - which one do you plan to use? I have heard the name of the locality where I live so mangled that no one had the slightest idea to where it referred and in addition it had no relationship to the actual meaning of the name. For an organisation whose object (you would think) was to communicate they do a damned bad job in my humble opinion. When did you last hear the city called Londonium? Names and the way people say them change - unless of course you have another agenda......Jigsawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13906156865367357834noreply@blogger.com