tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post5373650795507308590..comments2024-03-26T10:03:51.827+13:00Comments on Karl du Fresne: New Zealand: where being "anti-government" results in police surveillanceKarl du Fresnehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05054853925940134404noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-77881077900846087212021-12-24T16:36:33.530+13:002021-12-24T16:36:33.530+13:00"The documents reveal there are people in the..."The documents reveal there are people in the police who think it’s their function to protect us against the free exchange of ideas and opinion – a right guaranteed to New Zealanders under the Bill of Rights Act."<br />Surely you've noticed - the police hierarchy is fully onboard with protecting us from all the other BOR rights Jacinda has decided to take away!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17232757951212997324noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-77969346224984677162021-12-19T21:41:45.511+13:002021-12-19T21:41:45.511+13:00To Quintessential New Zealand
Thank you, you have...To Quintessential New Zealand<br /><br />Thank you, you have made my day and I am still chuckling. "learning bushcraft skills" you say... be still my heaving guffaws of laugher<br /><br />Six training camps, telephone intercepts talking of violent action, Molotov cocktail training on film, ambush techniques, patrolling techniques, explosives training....<br /><br />Evidence was found to be inadmissible in a court, but the evidence still exists in the real world. Four people were convicted on firearms offences.<br /><br />But let's look on the bright side, I still laugh at one of the photos showing a bespectacled guerrilla with semi-automatic pointed, obviously a keen eyed scout not noticing the surveillance camera about 3 feet in front of him.<br /><br />All in all a huge waste of time and resources over a bunch of deluded clowns.Ricardohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05840390411136437843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-29030304037355302532021-12-19T07:43:04.480+13:002021-12-19T07:43:04.480+13:00Robert Mann,
Thanks for picking up that error. I s...Robert Mann,<br />Thanks for picking up that error. I should have spotted it myself.Karl du Fresnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05054853925940134404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-4076274431227031092021-12-18T18:11:59.501+13:002021-12-18T18:11:59.501+13:00“Urewera guerrilla trainees”... you know not what ...“Urewera guerrilla trainees”... you know not what you are talking about!<br /><br />Those trainees were, in fact, learning bushcraft skills and preparation to apply for firearms licenses. One young woman, charged, had actually been encouraged, by local Police, to go and get some experience with a rifle first before applying for her license. She wanted to legally deal with a possum problem on her family’s rural property. A friend of Tame Iti, she asked to join one of the firearms training sessions he was running. Neither Tūhoe, or a Maori guerrilla, she was just doing as the Police officer issuing licenses had suggested. Another, Tame’s own nephew, needed a gun license to get a job with DoC controlling possums in Te Urewera. He was filmed in the bush during a training camp and that footage was shown on tv screens night after night during the trial of the ‘Urewera 4’. Btw he wasn’t even arrested during the Police raid of his family home, and he got his gun license and the job with DoC too. The Police covert surveillance, initiated by Auckland DIB officer, Aaron Pascoe, setting up cameras in Ruatoki bush was deemed illegal by the Solicitor General.Quintessential New Zealandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14174649585822532890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-53434392101725954382021-12-18T10:40:52.871+13:002021-12-18T10:40:52.871+13:00Good column Karl, up to your usual high standard.
...Good column Karl, up to your usual high standard.<br /><br />EXCEPT among your list of extreme measures open to the NZ police during the 1951 waterfront dispute {thanx for using correct noun there} you give<br /> > arrest people without warrant<br />I've never heard anybody suggest a constable should require a warrant to arrest somebody s/he has just observed committing a crime. Actually you too have that power, tho' it's rarely used. Power to arrest without a warrant continued during 1951 and rightly.<br /><br /><br /> Robert Mannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11943223043071991831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-29091604479079102062021-12-17T09:34:30.612+13:002021-12-17T09:34:30.612+13:00One needs to be mindful of where the Victoria poli...One needs to be mindful of where the Victoria police went as a result of Covid and keeping everyone safe. Journalists visited about their content, cameras and recordings confiscated, protesters visited before demonstrations, a lady getting arrested due to a facebook post in her home and who can forget the TV images of over the top violence on its population. This did not stem from some individual police officer making a call. It doesn't work like this. It has higher leanings, as was telegraphed to the media by serving officers in Victoria.<br /><br />There has been often daily actions in NZ, both city and small town, of police "checking" on business re masks and QR code mandates. Supporting hastily legislated roadblocks in Northland, checking cafes, clubs and hospitality (with implied threats of licence loss) and of course reacting to the dobbing of people for folks not wearing a mask. No individual police officer will have made this call.<br /><br />Im not an overt Cam Slater fan, but I am a freedom and right of expression (within the law) sort of person, and support his right to express that.. I think that although nothing major has occurred here, that we are aware of, the connotation of what was suggested needs to be noted. <br /><br />I am sure the Melbourne police got to where they got, from people with far higher pay grades and not some individual copper having a "good" idea. A lesson here perhaps.SidHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11375704098657128574noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-69772708143525038072021-12-17T09:29:18.637+13:002021-12-17T09:29:18.637+13:00Hardly a rant, Ricardo, and I’m sure your life is ...Hardly a rant, Ricardo, and I’m sure your life is good. My comment is solely about applying sweet reason to excuse an appalling act worthy of a police state. Being reasonable just doesn’t cut it. We all have to resist this sort of thing. Your approach will just encourage further abuse. Max Ritchiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09700377308425417842noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-49678367155125245022021-12-17T08:07:22.021+13:002021-12-17T08:07:22.021+13:00Max Ritchie. Let's unpick your rant.
First, ...Max Ritchie. Let's unpick your rant. <br /><br />First, this is not abuse. If it were then I am sure you agree with Nicky Hager and the Urewera guerrilla trainees that police surveillance is abuse, anywhere anytime.<br /><br />Next, nowhere in my post do I encourage this "dreadful behaviour".<br /><br />Yes, I am kind to old ladies and puppies.<br /><br />Finally I do have a rich and rewarding life. I don't need to get one. My advice to you is to use concepts like reason, logic and evidence. They are quite useful and far more rewarding than spittle laced abuse.<br /><br />cheers RicardoRicardohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05840390411136437843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-85491498590727906482021-12-16T20:58:05.311+13:002021-12-16T20:58:05.311+13:00Ricardo: bulls…t. This is an awful abuse and you a...Ricardo: bulls…t. This is an awful abuse and you are just encouraging this dreadful behaviour. Very reasonable and I’m sure you’re kind to old ladies and puppies, but, really, get a life.Max Ritchiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09700377308425417842noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-70742900658862569692021-12-16T18:25:43.704+13:002021-12-16T18:25:43.704+13:00"oh, and politicians too timid and too unsure..."oh, and politicians too timid and too unsure of their own values to make a stand for individual freedoms."<br /><br />Indeed.Brendan McNeillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02741263914308842497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-11249930319504965972021-12-16T16:05:16.990+13:002021-12-16T16:05:16.990+13:00Very few people — including the media and politici...Very few people — including the media and politicians — will want to stand up for Slater. He has a chequered history, shall we say, but that is no reason to look the other way when he is placed under police surveillance for expressing and publishing views the police deem to be critical of the govt.<br />Police wondering whether they "should pay Slater a visit" is extraordinary.<br />Once hate speech laws are passed, however, the police arriving to check your thinking will become much more common.Graham Adamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14653073277493805476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-9896535704379519682021-12-16T15:31:30.735+13:002021-12-16T15:31:30.735+13:00Whilst I have little or no time for Cameron Slater...Whilst I have little or no time for Cameron Slater, I would urge you Karl to postal mail (not email) a copy of this item to every news outlet in the country, a Priority Urgent copy to the Commissioner of Police, social media; plus a copy to every genuine journalist known to you in particular to be 'old school'. I'll happily reimburse the postage costs Karl.hughvanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13655840089502084282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-83177804714316643392021-12-16T15:26:45.333+13:002021-12-16T15:26:45.333+13:00Defending Cam Slater is not a thing politicians wo...Defending Cam Slater is not a thing politicians would do readily. Giving Mussolini some credit - he made the trains run on time - would be on a par. Nevertheless this is appalling. If the police are going to surveil (new, good, word) people who make outlandish political criticism then they’ll be watching every MP, 75% of Maori radicals, 90% of political candidates, every blogger and at least half of the patrons of every pub in NZ.Max Ritchiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09700377308425417842noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-51373438239613107162021-12-16T14:22:53.577+13:002021-12-16T14:22:53.577+13:00I suggest a measure of calm here.
First, Police s...I suggest a measure of calm here.<br /><br />First, Police surveil for a variety of reasons. It is what Police do, even in an open democracy. This was not illegal. Some language used was clumsy and open to attack, but no one was subject to rendition and torture. I am sure a lot of other sites across the political spectrum are also regularly surveilled, possibly even this one.<br /><br />Secondly, nothing happened from it. Perhaps wiser heads prevailed. But nothing happened.<br /><br />Thirdly, the OIA has worked and this "scanning unit" etc is brought to light. Now, the debate can occur and rightful examination/denunciation/explanation can be produced.<br /><br />Thirdly, Parliament is in recess. Let's look forward to its next opening. In the mean time, political opponents of the government are free to use this as they want.Ricardohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05840390411136437843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-42361274544118121772021-12-16T13:37:32.952+13:002021-12-16T13:37:32.952+13:00The Government have also accused the elected Counc...The Government have also accused the elected Councils of New Zealand of spreading misinformation about 3 Waters. It appears anyone who disagrees with this Government is spreading misinformation.<br /><br />Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05289240834173890159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-53245311611150948952021-12-16T12:14:47.961+13:002021-12-16T12:14:47.961+13:00Deeply disturbing. Why hasn't this been raise...Deeply disturbing. Why hasn't this been raised in Parliament? Those responsible are unfit to serve. Coster and his hapless Minister must be taken to task over the very existence of a Scanning and Targeting Unit". This is Stasi State stuff, straight out of "the Lives of Others ". <br />Trev1https://www.blogger.com/profile/00271717267778957672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-21833752306978078162021-12-16T10:39:35.516+13:002021-12-16T10:39:35.516+13:00The police are obviously very sic.The police are obviously very sic.Ian Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02920750917430656167noreply@blogger.com