tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post4283467676433208366..comments2024-03-26T10:03:51.827+13:00Comments on Karl du Fresne: Media freedom in New Zealand and how we differ from Putin's RussiaKarl du Fresnehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05054853925940134404noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-72885136539911722682022-04-03T17:35:15.265+12:002022-04-03T17:35:15.265+12:00Attn: Jean Paul
" find me a Russian perspec...Attn: Jean Paul <br /><br />" find me a Russian perspective news story on Ukraine in NZ media " <br /><br />You never will. So FYI here is a blogger that I have followed for some years now. <br />The writer is a Russian chap based in Florida USA.<br />( I say ) he comes across as a feet firmly on the ground realist. Worth a read <br /><br />http://thesaker.is/day-36-of-the-russian-smo-in-the-ukraine-a-look-at-ukrainian-military/Edward Mainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03712448462547328647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-55479382676061935552022-04-03T11:37:25.525+12:002022-04-03T11:37:25.525+12:00Just a slight point to make, Madame Blav:-
Russia ...Just a slight point to make, Madame Blav:-<br />Russia invaded Ukraine. Not vice versa. <br />Like Hitler invaded Poland. <br />A military invasion.Doug Longmirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12008729336442910333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-11834864245330739172022-03-31T13:43:04.050+13:002022-03-31T13:43:04.050+13:00So who do we believe?
The eastern country blockin...So who do we believe?<br /><br />The eastern country blocking all the western media OR<br /><br />The western countries blocking all eastern media.<br /><br />Relating to your topic headline, there's no difference.<br /><br />Point being find me a russian persepctive news story on Ukraine in NZ media. <br /><br />So, are new zealand journalists free to write their opinions? <br /><br />Yes, or are they? <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> <br /><br /><br />Jean paulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-8599169194362125132022-03-26T11:43:41.337+13:002022-03-26T11:43:41.337+13:00100% agree. It's everywhere. Mushy woke nonsen...100% agree. It's everywhere. Mushy woke nonsense that reads like teenage romantic ideas of some ideal world. IAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03940692335059647223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-45179049731956599592022-03-25T16:54:10.004+13:002022-03-25T16:54:10.004+13:00Reminds me very much of the episode of Yes Prime M...Reminds me very much of the episode of Yes Prime Minister-Sir Humphrey is explaining how unthinkable it is for a British politician to meddle in the outcome of a court case. When the PM asks what is to be done, Sir Humphrey replies.<br />"Simple-just find a judge who already does knows what you want" <br /><br />so many woke just-out-of-school "journalists"...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-1351332976133081072022-03-23T14:10:18.047+13:002022-03-23T14:10:18.047+13:00Hi Karl,
"...you very obligingly confirm my ...Hi Karl,<br /><br />"...you very obligingly confirm my point about Putin having New Zealand defenders who seem happy to turn a blind eye to the atrocities being carried out under his orders."<br /><br />And this is my point, which you too obligingly confirm: who says that Putin is "committing atrocities"? The State Department and the Pentagon (via MSM), that's who. Hardly neutral sources without any interest in shaping public opinion to conform to their policy goals, don't you think? After all, these are the same people who told us that Saddam's soldiers were removing babies from incubators and leaving them to die on the floor (1991) and that Saddam definitely had WMDs (2003). Both later turned out to be fabricated stories purely for propaganda purposes. <br /><br />It is reasonable to suggest that all sides commit "atrocities" during war time. The only difference in terms of subsequent value judgments is whose propaganda you are exposed to. As I make clear in my original post, taking a broad perspective on events and trying to form as objective a judgment as possible isn't "defending" Putin – I have no skin in the game. It's just that I am not caught up in the manufactured rush to condemn Putin in order to gain support for Washington's policy goals, goals which are not as pure as they would have us believe. <br /><br />Cheers. Madame Blavatskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08126756027874456416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-26821923182415743552022-03-22T18:01:58.717+13:002022-03-22T18:01:58.717+13:00I like your take on this, Linda Reid. “[.....their...I like your take on this, Linda Reid. “[.....their attitude is] that it’s their responsibility to save the world”. Recently I bought the 2007 edition of economist and philosopher Thomas Sowell’s book “A Conflict of Visions” – the Ideological Origins of Political Struggles. He first wrote it in 1987. Now in his 90’s, he was asked by a journalist which of his ca. 40 published books he thought was his best. This was the one he pointed to – so I bought it!! <br /><br />I read it twice. I now occasionally pick it up and open it at random - just to enjoy his relentless logic and wisdom. It should be compulsory reading for everybody who strives to be a social commentator in our woke political environment.<br />Andy Espersennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-75345052617951462732022-03-22T17:51:03.508+13:002022-03-22T17:51:03.508+13:00Transpress,
Phew. Not sure what to say to that, ex...Transpress,<br />Phew. Not sure what to say to that, except that they (whoever "they" are) haven't pounced on me. Yet.Karl du Fresnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05054853925940134404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-34899268600585773932022-03-22T14:22:18.622+13:002022-03-22T14:22:18.622+13:00Karl,
As ever assessment of what is happening both...Karl,<br />As ever assessment of what is happening both in Russia and New Zealand is remarkable.<br />Thank you- as mentioned we need such information to ultimately be in a position to have truthful assessments to have an informed viewpoint. This is being deprived by The MSM to the Public of New Zealand. A deep shame on them for doing this. We did not deserve it.<br />It struck me that last year early in the Covid 19 outbreak here , there was panic in The Press that The Russian Crews could not get back in from Russia to man our fishing fleets which apparently one major company uses a lot of them and this was a real issue and fleet fishing boats would probably be tied up. Have not heard anything at all on this in current situation. I wonder. <br />Best wishes,<br />RoryRoryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16499751568212301512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-79102106007273160142022-03-22T14:14:55.163+13:002022-03-22T14:14:55.163+13:00Enjoyable remarks by all & I agree with many.Enjoyable remarks by all & I agree with many.Hilary Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00240590567749247083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-66474978453036857832022-03-22T12:31:10.388+13:002022-03-22T12:31:10.388+13:00The amount of official censorship being applied no...The amount of official censorship being applied nowadays, not just in NZ is astronomical Much of the info coming from the Ukraine regime is faked and western journalists are carefully monitored as to what they report and what they show. NATO and the EU decided they didn't want balance from the Russian media -- RT and Sputnik and banned them. In NZ Facebook/Twitter etc and blogs (like this one) are monitored by authorities and if they find you too annoying they pounce. That's happened to several people under this government.transpress nzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11889609417253751134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-2324462116729022332022-03-22T12:25:21.648+13:002022-03-22T12:25:21.648+13:00I wonder how much the training of journalists, and...I wonder how much the training of journalists, and how it has changed over the decades, has contributed to this result. <br /><br />Once upon a time, a young person would join a local newsroom and start at the bottom, firmly under the control of an editor and/or sub-editor who trained them in how to report facts and to leave the opinions to those who knew more and better. <br /><br />No such thing as by-lines as the editor took responsibility for everything that was published. <br /><br />Now they all leave school and go straight to university - coming out three years later with a degree and the attitude that it's their responsibility to save the world. They just know that if only we had left-wing governments everything would be great. Or at least those evil rotters in National and Act should not be in power. Think of the children! Poor, misunderstood criminals! Gang members just want a family! <br /><br />If the left screw up, it's not so bad. At least they meant well.<br /><br />If the right does anything, good or bad, it must be for nefarious reasons. <br /><br />Sadly, most of them never grow out of this attitude. <br /><br />Linda Reidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11522988939551688199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-91808066009888224682022-03-22T11:53:19.906+13:002022-03-22T11:53:19.906+13:00If "Madame Blavatksky" tells us who she ...If "Madame Blavatksky" tells us who she (or he) really is, I will take her (or his) effusions seriously. The same goes for "Odysseus", "Scouser" and the rest.<br />-------------------<br /><br />Is the use of a "real" name more important than the value and substance of an argument? If "Madame Blavatsky" calls herself Jane Smith will her views become more acceptable? And her arguments more convincing?<br /><br />Of course Karl du Fresne has every right to require and enforce certain standards - it's his blog after all. Still, there're many reasons why people are reluctant to use their real names. In my case it's simple, there're only two people in the whole universe with my name. While I'm not afraid to call spade a spade, I see no need to advertise who and where I'm to all and sundry. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-30420051802452471212022-03-22T09:53:02.772+13:002022-03-22T09:53:02.772+13:00Bill Moore said: As a young newspaper reporter in ...Bill Moore said: As a young newspaper reporter in the 1970s I was taught, like my peers, "comment is free, but facts are sacred". We were expected to report the news in a fair, balanced, accurate way, without fear or favour, and let the crusty old leader writers (editors or backroom seniors) set out the paper's stand on local, national and international issues.<br />My understanding is that this even-handed approach was unusual in other countries and it worked well for New Zealand for a long time. So did the co-operative New Zealand Press Association, which covered the length of the country to everyone's benefit and provided solid parliamentary coverage for all until our Australian owners thought it better to break up the partnership and duke it out, thereby depriving all our readers of a comprehensive national news service in print.<br />As you point out, this dedication to balanced coverage has largely disappeared from both print, broadcast and online news. The solution is not to set up right-wing outlets as a counterbalance to the left. It lies in the far harder task of returning to reporting that gives everyone a fair go and publishing opinions across the spectrum, thereby winning the respect of readers and listeners. Oddly enough the few news organisations in odd spots around the country that still do this seem to command some loyalty even now, when the term "mainstream media" is almost always used pejoratively.<br />If "Madame Blavatksky" tells us who she (or he) really is, I will take her (or his) effusions seriously. The same goes for "Odysseus", "Scouser" and the rest.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17189581810627948327noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-3636810873164272772022-03-22T09:42:34.094+13:002022-03-22T09:42:34.094+13:00Interesting to see Willie Jackson come out all gun...Interesting to see Willie Jackson come out all guns blazing against Jack Tame for having the audacity to opine that Labour, temporarily reducing the excise tax on petrol, being somewhat sinister following a poor poll result. In all my observations over the past few years I would never have accused Jack Tame of being a patsy for the right. But the moment he steps out of line he is whacked by his masters. How dare he!!Zoroforeverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07586573715609292897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-46002801392712146302022-03-21T18:33:58.151+13:002022-03-21T18:33:58.151+13:00I think that, following your own stipulated rules,...I think that, following your own stipulated rules, you should have disallowed Madame Blavatsky's comment because she, writing anonymously, argues against you.<br /><br />That said, I am inclined to agree with her that your article is just too "black and white" in its presentation. We should most certainly proudly stand for our hallowed, democratic principles on freedom to write anything that is genuinely thought to be true and ethically right - but we must not fall into the trap of being whipped, brain-washed, into a state of common, righteous indignation against Putin and his very many Russian adherents. <br /><br />Our foreign policy must always be tempered by "Real Politik". We live in a real world. It is all very well vehemently "standing up for Ukraine" - but when it comes to laying your own life on the line to defend Ukraine's "national rights" you should stop to think again. And if you apply economic sanctions, you should seriously consider whether in the process you do not damage yourself too much. And I wonder how often economic sanctions actually do work to stop a determined aggressor. <br /><br />I am inclined to let Ukraine sail her own sea (apart from sending them masses of military hardware, of course). And seen from the outside, the Ukrainians aren't doing badly at all. I greatly admire their fortitude and valour - which I think is sure to pay off (like Finland's did many years ago). It seems to me that Putin has bitten off far more than he can chew - which in fact may well prove the end of him. Very many in the Kremlin disagree with him, I have heard.<br /><br />And I am pleased to see a real change in attitude to Russia from many countries: For example, Germany is rearming! My opinion is that also New Zealand should now increase her defence expenditure. If you desire peace, prepare for war. Andy Espersennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-53204434232044151752022-03-21T14:15:18.228+13:002022-03-21T14:15:18.228+13:00Putins rhetoric about the historical alignment wit...Putins rhetoric about the historical alignment with Russia must draw a wry smile from the Chinese Parts of eastern Russia including Vladivostok was historically part of China<br />To Putin I guess thats differentHikohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17655371667067421078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-82887334046364728562022-03-21T12:56:34.425+13:002022-03-21T12:56:34.425+13:00Karl - ref your comment `Another is climate change...Karl - ref your comment `Another is climate change, where dissenting voices are suppressed as a matter of editorial policy.' the New York based "COVERING CLIMATE NOW" (started by a group of journalists in association with The Guardian) is subscribed to by the following N.Z. legacy media outlets.<br /><br />• Newshub New Zealand <br />• RNZ New Zealand <br />• TVNZ's 1 News New Zealand<br />• The New Zealand Herald New Zealand <br />• The Otago Daily Times New Zealand <br />• The Wānaka Sun New Zealand<br />• Newsroom New Zealand <br />• The Spinoff New Zealand <br />• Stuff New Zealand<br />Some news outlets, such as The Guardian, Reuters and HuffPost, have their own guidelines.<br /><br />When STUFF some time ago, bought in to Covering Climate, they proudly advised that they would no longer accept articles or comments contrary to the prevailing narrative as the “science is settled”.Muzzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04318677064546724550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-18872308437069856652022-03-21T11:31:39.007+13:002022-03-21T11:31:39.007+13:00I agree Odysseus,
Like you, I read those sites, an...I agree Odysseus,<br />Like you, I read those sites, and like you I do not always agree with everything there, I respect it as free speech. <br />I disagree with Madame Blav. Her bias is very evident, and yes Karl, maybe applying your rules would be appropriate here.Doug Longmirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12008729336442910333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-914293688039703992022-03-21T11:11:09.995+13:002022-03-21T11:11:09.995+13:00You cannot hope to bribe or twist
(thank God!) the...You cannot hope to bribe or twist<br />(thank God!) the British journalist<br />But seeing what the man will do<br />unbribed, there's no occasion to.<br /><br />Humbert Wolfe, 1930 (hence the sexist assumption)<br /><br />So little has changed in nearly a century.PaulVDnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-57768071904622531162022-03-21T11:09:00.801+13:002022-03-21T11:09:00.801+13:00Karl,
On a different matter, Chris Trotter has pe...Karl,<br /><br />On a different matter, Chris Trotter has penned an article today at Bowalley Road discussing the uneasy co relationship in the National Party between Liberals and Conservatives. If you feel inclined it would be interesting to know your thoughts on where to from here for conservatives. New Zealand now has extreme liberal legislation flowing though parliament that seems normal to liberals. For example, aborted babies born alive have to be left to starve to death by law. We can change our sex with a simple online declaration. I tell people overseas what is going on and they don't believe it. Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05289240834173890159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-7550065243292058462022-03-21T11:06:56.899+13:002022-03-21T11:06:56.899+13:00It’s scary how much influence the mainstream media...It’s scary how much influence the mainstream media have in New Zealand. Most people pay little attention to politics and don’t have the time or inclination to dig behind what is presented. I have no problem with a publication ala The Guardian (UK) who are clear in their philosophy (reasonably left of centre in this case) but worry we have no counter balancing publications as in the UK. We receive a relative monoculture of opinion masquerading as truths and balanced.<br /><br />I am not surprised as my relatively limited exposure to mainstream journalists and TV left me underwhelmed. The admittedly small number of journalists I had longer conversations with were surprisingly one-eyed, low on general knowledge, knew little of history and had non-existent numerical skills and scientific knowledge. Great communicators though. Might be my bias coming through there.<br /><br />I personally know the facts of two cases that were completely misrepresented on national TV to fit a particular message. (I do mean know and not someone told me). I was approached to be interviewed on national TV on another matter when someone was making fictional accusations against an organisation I was involved with. I declined as they didn’t deserve oxygen. When I suggested they look at the facts there were several seconds of silence at the other end of the phone. Ironic. <br /><br />I attempted to discuss media bias with friends, colleagues, acquaintances, my barber …. several years ago and met almost universal surprise and disagreement. However, like a gambler who does not know to walk away with his/her winnings the media picture has become less and less relevant and more skewed in a world view that is alien to most. The opinion and bias are now too obvious to be missed by a majority and we are seeing a (small) groundswell of opposing views. You cannot fool all the people all the time.<br /><br />IMO this is a huge driver of increasing distrust of the media. <br /><br />I also believe this will backfire on Labour as the cult of Ardern collapses as it is now perceived as linked to the same media exercise many more no longer trust.Scousernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-528243447649916882022-03-21T10:25:33.166+13:002022-03-21T10:25:33.166+13:00Karl, the one thing that has puzzled me are the re...Karl, the one thing that has puzzled me are the reports of the Monday "meeting" of editors with ardern's office.<br /><br />Is that a real thing and if so, couldn't that be construed as a form of media control? <br /><br />I fully agree that the current crop of media are certainly onboard the ardern train but as citizens we have little ability to do anything about that except withdraw our patronage.<br /><br />Gary Petershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03808045522267423028noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-64617180216371098412022-03-21T10:06:38.244+13:002022-03-21T10:06:38.244+13:00When it comes to evaluating people, places, events...When it comes to evaluating people, places, events, and communications from all sources we typically apply the following measures:<br /><br />1) The data - what statistical information can we reliably apply?<br />2) Life experience - what do we know about human nature, people and past events we can use to inform us?<br />3) Worldview - what spiritual moral and intellectual framework do we rely upon that would shape our response?<br />4) Intuition - does it pass the ‘sniff’ test? the ‘reasonable person’ test? what is our gut instinct saying?<br />5) Are we simply too ill-informed to draw a conclusion?<br /><br />We may not methodically work through these criteria as some kind of ‘check list’ but for the most part these factors run in the background doing the heavy lifting for us, helping us make sense of the world. This being the case, why do two people, when confronted with the same ‘narrative’ draw entirely different conclusions? My sense is that (4), which is informed by (3) holds the answer.<br /><br />Journalists these days appear to be young and religiously Woke. Any opinion that does not align with their political sensibilities is viewed with deep suspicion and hostility - presumably emanating from a cult, the alt-right, or the far-right, and therefore beyond the pale. It is their moral duty to ensure such ideas do not get any air time, except to be ridiculed. <br /><br />Consequently for many of us, the media has become smug, self congratulatory and vacuous. This is not helpful for the liberal democratic process, or the future of New Zealand; arguably it is not sustainable, but it is where we have landed. Brendan McNeillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02741263914308842497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-87049958854080133942022-03-21T10:06:25.255+13:002022-03-21T10:06:25.255+13:00Gabriel, I am not sure if you noticed but the NZ G...Gabriel, I am not sure if you noticed but the NZ Government was also a reluctant convert to the Ukraine side. Likewise also reluctant to condemn Russia after the Salisbury incident. I can imagine a bit of external pressure from the USA. No matter what the hidden agendas, invading Ukraine and bombing their civilians is evil.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05289240834173890159noreply@blogger.com