tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post608920413094175318..comments2024-03-26T10:03:51.827+13:00Comments on Karl du Fresne: More on that Roe v Wade feeding frenzyKarl du Fresnehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05054853925940134404noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-60801953505367060632022-07-03T13:59:25.112+12:002022-07-03T13:59:25.112+12:00You may also appreciate this argument from well kn...You may also appreciate this argument from well known US legal blogger (and libertarian), Ilya Somin on the Reason website, <a href="https://reason.com/volokh/2022/06/30/a-broader-perspective-on-my-body-my-choice/" rel="nofollow">A Broader Perspective on "My Body, My Choice"</a>:<br /><br /><i>Similarly, Anglo-American law holds there is no liability if you walk by a baby drowning in a lake and choose not to save her (though some philosophers and legal scholars believe there should be). But, if a fetus has a right to life comparable to that of a baby, then abortion is a stronger case for regulation than the "drowning baby" scenario. In most, though not all, cases (rape is an obvious exception) the pregnant woman had a major role in putting the fetus in a position of jeopardy in the first place, by voluntarily choosing to have unprotected sex.<br /><br />This makes the situation very different from one where the drowning baby was in peril for reasons having nothing to do with the person who might be able to save it. If you threw the baby in the water, or he ended up there through your negligence, you do indeed have a legal or moral duty to save him.</i>Tom Hunterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17840988228699338463noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-22654880534983043922022-07-02T13:45:44.940+12:002022-07-02T13:45:44.940+12:00Great article Karl. Couldn't agree more 😊Great article Karl. Couldn't agree more 😊Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09006013946847228416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-28754805667223376492022-07-01T18:52:31.135+12:002022-07-01T18:52:31.135+12:00Exactly, and while he was at it he should have cal...Exactly, and while he was at it he should have called out 3 Waters and added the Health reform and stated, unreservedly that, National will repeal any legislation that does not recognise democratic equality for all its citizens, subject only to the usual agreed age and criminal incarceration provisos etc. But of course he didn't, and won't, because he no doubt believes in the mythical 'partnership' and that co-governance is ok, leastwise while there maybe the odd vote in it. Hardly the sort of person you want to be in the trenches with, as he'll pick the expedient of whatever assists in securing his PM aspirations. <br /><br />As for what the American Supreme Court says on abortion, surely for us here it's an irrelevancy and it's just a media and political beat-up. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-68911323497077529692022-06-30T20:27:51.904+12:002022-06-30T20:27:51.904+12:00David’s comment:
“I agree strongly with you Karl...David’s comment:<br /><br /> “I agree strongly with you Karl re the NZ media frenzy. It's being portrayed as if abortion rights here are under threat because of the US Supreme Court. That's utterly bizarre. It seems our media no longer have editorial executives able to rein the hysterical scribes back into reality.”<br /><br />David,<br /><br />I may be on a slightly different page to you on some parts of the current abortion and protest debate. I feel the reason the abortion debate here has gone off on the proverbial tangent is that Labour feels the pro-life movement could draw a lot more oxygen and support from the US Supreme Court decision. Rather than take up a lot of space in Karl’s commenting area I have placed my own piece out there. If you read it I hope you would not place me in the hysterical scribe category.<br /> <br />https://eamonsloan.blogspot.com/<br />Eamon Sloanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03551803651059076248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-57687742093929421302022-06-30T14:25:20.248+12:002022-06-30T14:25:20.248+12:00Its extraordinary and as if many Kiwis seem to thi...Its extraordinary and as if many Kiwis seem to think we’re part of America. Something similar happened after George Floyd. <br /><br />Anyways that brings me to my point: why don’t we become the 51st State? Surely accession would be a win-win for everyone? We’d all be Democrats in our colder California, our academics and their woke fellow travellers would feel right at home, One News would become half relevant, Ashley could hook up with Dr Fauci, our rappers with their rappers, Wellywood with Hollywood, the 501s with the Bloods and the Crips. We’d get rid of maths and our kids could buy a house …. in Arkansas. We’d finally get that free trade agreement, although Canada still wouldn’t take our dairy and our national debt could hide behind a decimal point somewhere in Washington. Most importantly free speech and democracy would be guaranteed for a while at least with a conservative Supreme Court willing to uphold the actual Constitution and Bill of Rights.Robnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-83257091810187300922022-06-30T11:31:13.405+12:002022-06-30T11:31:13.405+12:00For the record I don't believe in any "sa...For the record I don't believe in any "sanctity of life" (Nor does anyone who cheers when they see Russian soldiers killed in Ukraine but that is another story.).<br /><br />As an old fart I fully support the idea that someone should put me down as soon as I cease being a good bad example.<br /><br />I also don't have a position on abortion.<br /><br />I do, however, have a position on the deliberate dishonesty the msm are using to play up this story in an attempt to further abuse those of us who believe in individual responsibility.<br /><br />I don't like it!Tinmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02749937729383913466noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-15104496523506495272022-06-30T11:07:28.859+12:002022-06-30T11:07:28.859+12:00This would have been a great opportunity for Luxon...This would have been a great opportunity for Luxon to remind the media and NZ how democracy is supposed to work: he personally opposes abortion, but he accepts that there was open debate and it was clear the majority of voters do not share his views and therefore he will not only accept it, but defend it as a representative of those people. Show Labour's Maori caucus and Willie "tyranny of the majority" Jackson how it is supposed to be done.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-11039506237667576852022-06-30T09:14:44.749+12:002022-06-30T09:14:44.749+12:00I could not agree with your last paragraph more.
...I could not agree with your last paragraph more. <br /> I call this phenomenon Toxic Femininity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-17987069157450690272022-06-30T08:51:01.656+12:002022-06-30T08:51:01.656+12:00A minor clarification. O’Connor’s post was to his ...A minor clarification. O’Connor’s post was to his Facebook page. From there it was copied and posted on Twitter by a Green Party MP who wished to use it for political capital to begin the twisting of the narrative that National was not to be trusted around the laws regarding abortion. Luxon then went into damage control, but make no mistake here, the ones throwing fuel on the bonfire were the desperate amongst Labour and the Greens.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-37446825450023926522022-06-30T08:50:08.002+12:002022-06-30T08:50:08.002+12:00The media beat-up is clearly politically motivated...The media beat-up is clearly politically motivated. In the most recent polls Labour has been losing its grip on the female vote (18 to 49) which was previously solidly for Ardern. The Supreme Court decision and reactions to it provide the opportunity to smear Luxon and National as hostile to women's rights and win back this electorally crucial demographic. This being so O'Çonnor's social media post was very foolish and he does indeed owe his colleagues an apology.Odysseushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04745489060434244478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-69592261392095671132022-06-29T21:21:53.375+12:002022-06-29T21:21:53.375+12:00Didn't see it Hugh. Behind a paywall.Didn't see it Hugh. Behind a paywall.Karl du Fresnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05054853925940134404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-42436534983848021582022-06-29T17:44:46.468+12:002022-06-29T17:44:46.468+12:00Karl, I'd be interested in your thoughts on Di...Karl, I'd be interested in your thoughts on Dita De Boni's opinion piece in the NBR today.Hugh Jorgannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-8718634741177093052022-06-29T16:25:09.765+12:002022-06-29T16:25:09.765+12:00LNF,
For the record, I oppose hanging for the same...LNF,<br />For the record, I oppose hanging for the same reason I oppose abortion. It strikes me as weird and contradictory that many of the US states that propose to ban abortion - such as Alabama, Mississippi, Kentucky and Oklahoma - also retain capital punishment. They seem to take a highly selective approach to the sanctity of life.Karl du Fresnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05054853925940134404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-47813328649876245732022-06-29T15:53:09.418+12:002022-06-29T15:53:09.418+12:00I do not understand why there is such an outcry fo...I do not understand why there is such an outcry for abortion to be accepted as being fine<br />How many contraceptive products are available.<br />Condom, pill, morning after pill, etc. Another option is to delay the act until preventative measures can be availed. Surely behaving like a rutting animal is not a tag people want <br />Abortion is being added as a form of contraception <br />Time someone stated something to the effect that if you are not smart enough or responsible enough to manage this aspect of your life, then perhaps the world is better off without your gene pool<br />And maybe we should look at bringing back hangingLNFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07092744789247262161noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-76486030382639368902022-06-29T14:22:16.524+12:002022-06-29T14:22:16.524+12:00Again, we are being badly served by the media. Roe...Again, we are being badly served by the media. Roe is about the US Constitution, not abortion. There’s no mention of abortion in the US Constitution and therefore any law about it is a matter for the States. And note it’s the US, not NZ. We are also being badly served by our political leaders. Luxon again demonstrates that while he might have been great at marketing peanut butter and air travel, he is hopeless at politics. Even the much admired Seymour couldn’t help getting in on the act, creating a policy for his party on the hoof. Labour of course, formerly the party for Roman Catholics, is into abortion, boots and all. The Church hierarchy seems to be strangely silent. This issue - Roe - is not a matter for us, any more than the abortion rules or constitutions of France or Chad or Mongolia. Max Ritchiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09700377308425417842noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-87142285837614862912022-06-29T13:55:09.038+12:002022-06-29T13:55:09.038+12:00I come from the other side of the abortion debate ...I come from the other side of the abortion debate than you Karl, but I agree with much of what you say about the media and the weird circumlocution Luxon and National are going through on this issue.<br /><br />As someone who votes National, but is socially liberal, I really don't like the idea of voting for a party lead by a evangelical christian. It's not his views on abortion that I object to, but his lack of a a vision or sense of ambition for NZ. The way he has jettisoning what you'd expect to be quite important to him shows that his desire for power overrides all, even his faith. Slick for sure, but why can't we do better than this?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8442430064359197279.post-91599809136650590832022-06-29T12:26:03.217+12:002022-06-29T12:26:03.217+12:00I agree strongly with you Karl re the NZ media fre...I agree strongly with you Karl re the NZ media frenzy. It's being portrayed as if abortion rights here are under threat because of the US Supreme Court. That's utterly bizarre. It seems our media no longer have editorial executives able to rein the hysterical scribes back into reality.<br /><br /><i>One last thing. In recent years there has been a striking change in the tone of pro-abortion rhetoric. Abortion is no longer portrayed just as a measure of last resort for desperate women. It is now proudly embraced and celebrated as an assertion of female autonomy.</i><br /><br />I'm not sure about that Karl. I seem to recall the slogan "my body my choice" being in use for decades now.<br /><br />Wikipedia, which is ferociously PC if not woke on many matters (so presumably accurate on this topic), has a lengthy page on the slogan which says: "In late 1969 the slogan was coined as a feminist struggle for reproductive rights and subsequently noted by the global feminist struggle." <br /><br />It is a slogan so familiar to me that, as I walked through the Parliament Protest in February, I chuckled and took photos of some of the many women there with t-shirts emblazoned with "my body my choice." I presumed the "choice" cited referred to the Pfizer covid-19 vaccine rather than abortion, which must have caused apoplexy for the media whose parrot line was that the protesters were a mob of male white supremacists (please don't get me started on all the Māori women and men there with their Tino Rangatiratanga and 1835 flags, never mentioned by the reporters who could only see male white supremacists everywhere).David McLoughlinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07572242600889192661noreply@blogger.com