Friday, August 22, 2014

Planet Tiso


I recently heard the self-described Marxist blogger Giovanni Tiso being interviewed by Kim Hill. (Fancy that, you’re thinking; a left-wing guest on Kim Hill’s show. Who’d have thought?) On that occasion Tiso gave a remarkably convincing impersonation of a sane man. Almost had me fooled. Then someone drew my attention to his angry stream-of-consciousness yapping on Twitter about Jane Clifton’s latest Listener column. I’m now convinced that he’s unhinged and shouldn’t be allowed out in public without a minder.
Tiso can barely contain his fury that the Listener’s respected political columnist should have a different take on the Dirty Politics affair from his own. Such is the far left’s embrace of free speech. But you have to allow that Tiso is at least consistent in his intolerance of views that don’t square with his own. This after all is the man who, to his surprise and delight, managed to get two RadioLive hosts pulled off the air because he didn’t like what they said during the Roast Busters furore.
What's most intriguing is Tiso’s apparent conviction that an eager world constantly awaits his latest pronouncement. He appears incapable of leaving Twitter alone for more than a few seconds. Given that he clearly doesn't have enough to do, perhaps some kind soul could offer him an honest job; he’s bound to have a doctorate in something useless. Or, failing that, at least adjust his medication.

46 comments:

Philip Matthews said...

Try playing the ball not the man, Karl. "Impersonation of a sane man", "unhinged", "without a minder" etc? You should be better than this.

Why not address what Tiso was actually getting at, which is that Jane Clifton was minimising the revelations in Dirty Politics as business as usual/everyone does it, with an equivalence (highly dubious in my opinion) between Hager and Slater? You may or may not agree but why not talk about that stuff rather than personal attacks?

Mike said...
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Dave Currie said...

"Tiso should shut up. For one, he has told people to shut up. Where's the free speech?"

That's you.

Stephen Parkes said...

Criticise Giovanni all you like but really, any jokes along the lines of 'get a real job' or about adjusting medication are very tired and cringeworthy these days. You might want to remove those from your otherwise reasonable.... Umm, no never mind. They fit right in, actually.

HORansome said...

So, let's get this straight. I recently read the self-described conservative journalist Karl du Fresne writing withering commentary online that Kim Hill dared interview someone he doesn't like. (Fancy that, you’re thinking; a right-wing blogger disliking Kim Hill’s show. Who’d have thought?) Now, on that occasion du Fresne gives a remarkably convincing impersonation of a sane man. Almost had me fooled. However, his blog drew my attention to his angry ramblings about Giovanni Tiso's tweets about Jane Clifton’s latest Listener column. I’m now convinced that de Fresne is unhinged and shouldn’t be allowed out in public without a minder. He can barely contain his fury that someone might disagree with the Listener’s "respected political columnist" (his words) take on the Dirty Politics affair from his own. Such is the far right’s embrace of free speech. But you have to allow that du Fresne is at least consistent in his intolerance of views that don’t square with his own. This after all is the man who whilst nominally supporting free speech and the ability for consumers to make rational choice was outraged that Tiso was part of a group of people who calmly and diligently informed people about the outrageous actions of two RadioLive hosts during the Roast Busters furore, an action which lead to consumers and producers going "In a free society we are allow to express our disapproval of that kin of speech." What's most intriguing is de Fresne’s apparent conviction that an eager world constantly awaits his latest pronouncement. Given that he clearly doesn't have enough to do, perhaps some kind soul could offer him an honest job; he’s bound to just be a journalist or something else just as useless. Or, failing that, at least adjust his medication.

Giovanni Tiso said...

Knowing as you would have from the Kim Hill interview that my daughter is intellectually disabled makes the "medication" comment exquisitely vile, Karl.

Win Kiddle said...

Do you think it's right that you use mental illness as a way to discredit people? You may think it's clever but it's downright despicable. People have a right to criticise others don't they? It's called free speech. Something that's disappearing quickly obviously. You really need to take a breath, calm down and grow up. Not everyone needs to think the same as you and Jane Clifton. If we did, what a boring and myopic society we would have.

Win Kiddle said...

Just because you worship Jane Clifton, doesn't mean we all have to. Perhaps you should go back to doing being a TV critic. You were really good at it.

SeaJay said...
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Morgan Godfery said...

Given the context which you must be aware of, Karl, the intellectual disability trope you use against GT is revolting. Quite seriously, Karl, you owe an apology to GT for publishing this contemptible post.

Bill Schoffelmeer said...

Karl du Fresne is an open minded and critical thinker. His journalism is characterised by a willingness to engage in meaningful debate, and to give balanced consideration to dissenting opinion.
A precis of his writing style can be found here, above the comments section.

Brett D said...
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Danielle said...
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Tim Upperton said...

Karl, as a practising Catholic you must know that the tactics, actions and words used by Cameron Slater and his friends, and revealed in Nicky Hager's book, are revolting and morally indefensible. In their close association with Slater and their use of him to conduct their smear campaigns from a safe distance, Collins, Key, Eade et al are equally revolting and indefensible. This is not politics as usual, and as a political reporter, you know that, too. And those RadioLive hosts you mention: you do remember that they belittled a rape victim on air, and dismissed the raping of young girls as "mischief", don't you? Of course they have the right to hold such vile views, even if the views themselves are (again) revolting and morally indefensible. But they don't have a right to a public, commercially funded platform from which to broadcast these views, and those commercial funders made that clear.

You know all this, and yet you devote this piece to attacking Giovanni Tiso, someone who opposes and stands up to the Tamiheres and the Jacksons and the Slaters of this world, and you do so in the most vile, ad hominem way. Shame on you. Shame on you.

David O'Kane said...

lol!! what a great time to be a leftist... hasn't the last couple of weeks been great... old Teflon john is slowly getting covered in shit, along with so many of his right wing plonker mates.... so entitled are they... oh how sad! their current gravy train is about to dry up...

Faisal Al-Asaad said...
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Karl du Fresne said...

Nice to see you all here on my blog. Make yourselves at home.

Nuclearsexy said...
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Paul said...
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Stephen Parkes said...

Nuc, I'm sure it's possible to joke about someone's purported "anger levels" without connecting it to mental health issues, and it would be particularly wise to do so if you know the person you're criticising as a child with autism.

But regardless, jokes of the "you need to up your meds" sort really are very lame and very, very old.

Tim Upperton said...

@ Nuclearsexy: As someone who grew up attending the same Catholic church in Waipukurau that Karl himself attended, I can assure you your assertion that "the Catholic reference smacks of of bug eyed neo liberal hatred" is not only cliche but wrong.

Karl du Fresne said...

Tim,
As is your statement that I am a practising Catholic. Hasn't been true for a very long time.

Giovanni Tiso said...

Mightily amused by Paul's suggestion that we should eschew taking offence in favour of "a reasoned argument". Seeing as Karl's argument appears to be that I'm a) mentally ill and b) unemployed, what reasoned argument could one mount in my response? Pointing out that neither thing is true would probably not count for much on Planet Karl. Besides, it might bolster the implication that there is something inherently wrong with being either of those things.

All unpleasantness aside, what should genuinely hearten us about posts like this is that the Karl and his ilk are mightily rattled. And that's unquestionably a good thing.

SeaJay said...
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Marty Silva said...

Don't be a precious coward. Telling someone to take their meds is a standard retort. Don't use your daughter's condition as a shield.

Giovanni Tiso said...

A standard retort among whom, people who enjoy making fun of mental illness? Just who are you people?

Win Kiddle said...
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Tim Upperton said...

I didn't know you were no longer a practising Catholic, Karl. Me neither, as it happens. I wanted to correct the commenter who implied the Catholic reference was a slur: it wasn't meant as such at all. Catholic or not, I don't think you'll disagree with my description of the tactics, actions and language of Slater and those associated with him as vile and morally repugnant. Which makes it puzzling why you would single out Giovanni Tiso, of all people, for criticism, and criticism of the most personal, insulting kind. Philip Matthews said it: you should be better than this.

Taramoc said...
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Mark Hubbard said...

By this stage of the thread I'm still laughing.

Not your best post, Karl, pretty awful, in fact, but then Giovanni's 'strident intellectualism' - quoting his Twitter bio - does bring out the worst in people. Certainly does me.

But these comments are a perfect demonstration of how to control the agenda you have to control the language, and the Left are marvels and the masters at it :)

Stephen Parkes said...

That must be why the Left have been in power for so long.

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What happened to free speech?

Giovanni Tiso said...

Faisal's comment said this:

If anything, it's a credit to Giovanni Tiso that he has got a reactionary like Karl to throw such a tantrum. Shows you GT is doing something right.

Karl, your vacuous tirade shows that you really haven't a single worthwhile thought about the subject matter; hence the resort to ad hominem. Grow up and start engaging with what others are actually saying, you might learn a thing or two. Then again you might not, symptomatic as your post is of what we crazies on the left call the "passion for ignorance". It's a chronic condition, so don't bother adjusting the medication.


Win Kiddle's coomment said this:

Did you not get so many people commenting Karl. Don't worry I won't be coming back

Paul said...
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Giovanni Tiso said...

On the internet, you're going to be made to look silly for the things you delete after accusing someone else of censorship.

Karl du Fresne said...

If I was troubled by free speech I would have deleted most of the other comments here. But since you raise the issue, none of you have inalienable rights to say what you like on this blog. You're only here as long as I tolerate you. Fortunately I'm an exceptionally tolerant man.

Paul said...
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Karl du Fresne said...

I should have added my thanks to you for confirming that some of you, at least, are in touch with each other. It always feels safer hunting in packs.

Giovanni Tiso said...

Yes, we are not all cranky loners. Guilty as charged. But your exceptional tolerance apparently doesn't extend to answering specific objections, such as have been raised multiple times in these comments, including by a respected journalist and ex colleague of yours.

Giovanni Tiso said...

"Giovanni, you are the only one who mentioned censorship."

Karl wrote a post about me last year accusing me of being an enemy of free speech after the Willie and JT affair.

Paul said...

Giovanni, maybe you would be happier if you let some things go.

Karl du Fresne said...

I've scanned these comments carefully and can see no one who could be described as a former colleague of mine, still less as a respected journalist.

Stephen Parkes said...

Paul, Karl raised the issue of free speech and getting people pulled off air in his post. Paragraph 2. Perhaps he should have let that go? Anyway, that is where the connection to censorship came into it.

Karl, great - we all agree that none of us have an inalienable right to comment on your blog, and Willie and JT didn't have an inalienable right to a radio show. Glad we've got that sorted.

Karl du Fresne said...

I was out mowing the lawns this afternoon (a pleasant activity, by the way - I recommend it to those tormented souls who spend all their time huddled over a keyboard) when I suddenly thought: hang on, I don't even know the identity of some of the people attacking me on this blog. That hardly seems fair when everyone knows who I am. It's a basic principle of the law, after all, that you should know who your accusers are. So I've decided to revert to a rule that I adopted when I started this blog. If you don't have the guts to state your name, expect to be deleted.

Giovanni Tiso said...

Okay. First comment you deleted was from scientist Mike Dickison. It read "Just checking, Karl: can we claim you're mentally ill in our comments? You're cool with those public statements, right? Given you love free speech."

Karl du Fresne said...

You're in an even worse state than I thought, Giovanni. You're responding to my comments almost before I've finished typing. Is there a clinical term for this condition?

Giovanni Tiso said...

I happen to be working - I'm proofreading a book - and I get email alerts when a comment is posted. So no, don't worry, I'm not very taxed. But I compliment you on yet another dig about my mental health. You really are an excellent person.